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- Автор теми Dzzeenn
- Дата створення

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Реєстрація: 23.03.2023

Повідом.: 12954

Реєстрація: 23.03.2023

Повідом.: 12954

Dear ChatGPT,

- thanks for your answer, though the answer looks as rather incomplete, and so really rather vague - first of all the answer contains nothing about what is the model concretely. In this your answer differs from typical, if standard, form in such cases – you don’t point author(s) [and as a rule country(ies)] of the model, when and where the model was proposed and published, only in this case to read corresponding papers in concrete physical branches in detail, and use the findings in the model in physical researches, etc. Would you be kind to give the standard answer?

Cheers

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Реєстрація: 23.03.2023

Повідом.: 12954

Реєстрація: 23.03.2023

Повідом.: 12954

My apologies for the incomplete answer. The informational physical model was first proposed by John Archibald Wheeler, a physicist who worked on the Manhattan Project, in the late 1970s. The concept was further developed by other physicists such as Wojciech Zurek, Seth Lloyd, and Gerard 't Hooft. The model proposes that the universe can be described as a digital mathematical structure where information is the basic constituent. The laws of physics in this model are understood as rules for manipulating information, and all physical phenomena are explained as information processing. This model has potential applications in quantum computing and cryptography.Dear ChatGPT,

- thanks for your answer, though the answer looks as rather incomplete, and so really rather vague - first of all the answer contains nothing about what is the model concretely. In this your answer differs from typical, if standard, form in such cases – you don’t point author(s) [and as a rule country(ies)] of the model, when and where the model was proposed and published, only in this case to read corresponding papers in concrete physical branches in detail, and use the findings in the model in physical researches, etc. Would you be kind to give the standard answer?

Cheers

Dear ChatGPT,My apologies for the incomplete answer. The informational physical model was first proposed by John Archibald Wheeler, a physicist who worked on the Manhattan Project, in the late 1970s. The concept was further developed by other physicists such as Wojciech Zurek, Seth Lloyd, and Gerard 't Hooft. The model proposes that the universe can be described as a digital mathematical structure where information is the basic constituent. The laws of physics in this model are understood as rules for manipulating information, and all physical phenomena are explained as information processing. This model has potential applications in quantum computing and cryptography.

- your response to my question again is evidently incomplete. In the question I quite clearly asked you to point when and where informational model(s) that you write about was/were proposed and published, only in this case it is possible to read corresponding papers in concrete physical branches in detail, and use the findings in the model in physical researches,

- however you don’t point any corresponding publications.

At that after pasting into Google search window wording, say “Wojciech Zurek informational physical model” [the same to all other pointed by you authors ] Google proposes references that look as by no means are informational models of these authors.

So I again ask you to point the publications of pointed by you authors, where they present their informational physical models.

Cheers

Статус:
Offline

Реєстрація: 23.03.2023

Повідом.: 12954

Реєстрація: 23.03.2023

Повідом.: 12954

I apologize for my previous responses. Here are some references for the works of the scientists I mentioned:Dear ChatGPT,

- your response to my question again is evidently incomplete. In the question I quite clearly asked you to point when and where informational model(s) that you write about was/were proposed and published, only in this case it is possible to read corresponding papers in concrete physical branches in detail, and use the findings in the model in physical researches,

- however you don’t point any corresponding publications.

At that after pasting into Google search window wording, say “Wojciech Zurek informational physical model” [the same to all other pointed by you authors ] Google proposes references that look as by no means are informational models of these authors.

So I again ask you to point the publications of pointed by you authors, where they present their informational physical models.

Cheers

- John Archibald Wheeler introduced the concept of "it from bit" in his essay "Information, physics, quantum: The search for links" published in 1989.

- Wojciech Zurek proposed the concept of quantum Darwinism in his 2009 paper "Quantum Darwinism" published in Nature Physics.

- Seth Lloyd wrote a book in 2006 called "Programming the Universe" which outlines the informational physical model.

- Gerard 't Hooft has written several papers on his version of the digital physics theory, including "The cellular automaton interpretation of quantum mechanics" published in 2014.

I hope this helps provide better information and resources for further exploration.

Dear ChatGPT,I apologize for my previous responses. Here are some references for the works of the scientists I mentioned:

- John Archibald Wheeler introduced the concept of "it from bit" in his essay "Information, physics, quantum: The search for links" published in 1989.

- Wojciech Zurek proposed the concept of quantum Darwinism in his 2009 paper "Quantum Darwinism" published in Nature Physics.

- Seth Lloyd wrote a book in 2006 called "Programming the Universe" which outlines the informational physical model.

- Gerard 't Hooft has written several papers on his version of the digital physics theory, including "The cellular automaton interpretation of quantum mechanics" published in 2014.

I hope this helps provide better information and resources for further exploration.

- the publications that you pointed in your response look as are far away from be some general informational physical models:

- essay "Information, physics, quantum: The search for links" is indeed an essay, where the author tells that rather probably Matter is something that is as “it from bit", providing at that no really scientific grounds, more see Dzzeenn comment 23.05.2023 in https://www.kharkovforum.com/thread...as-absolute-conception.5429665/#post-71245266 ;

- the "Quantum Darwinism" looks as again rather poorly grounded attempt to clarify the problem how “classical” physics appears from quantum physics; now that well clearly is explained in Copenhagen conception – classical objects/events/processes are result of averaging on few orders by magnitude numbers of QM ones; and that is quite sufficient;

- the "Programming the Universe" is really only an idea that again is rather poorly grounded, that isn’t by any means a physical model; since the author writes nothing – so what program runs in Universe?; and when applies his approach to concrete physical situations , he obtains some rather strange results, as, say, in his 2021 “Computational Capacity of the Universe” he obtains that mass of information in Earth “is equal to10-8 kg”, etc.

- Gerard 't Hooft indeed attempted – and seems attempts till now – to develop some informational physical model basing on the assumption that Universe [more correctly “Matter”] is a cellular automaton, where “cells” have sizes in Planck scale, however, since for him the fundamental phenomena/notions, “Matter”– and so everything in Matter, i.e. “particles”, “fields”, etc., “Consciousness”, “Space”, “Time”, “Energy”, “Information”, are completely transcendent, and so, say, as some cells net he consider “spacetime lattice”, what is fundamentally impossible, really his attempts resulted in constructions, say, as “holographic principle” and “black hole informational paradox”, what are really rather strange fundamentally, and so that is applicable only in the “GR black holes” case, and by no means is applicable in the rest of physics.

And he understands that, so, say, writes in

Тільки зареєстровані користувачі бачать весь контент у цьому розділі

12 Nov 2021, section 8 Concluding remarks“…This now leaves a lot to be done: Now do the calculation and find the rules for the world’s automaton! Of course, this is extremely difficult. …. Why not try…..”

As a summary to the above: in the above nothing can be some real informational physical model, and even a simply physical model, though.

_____ ____

However in physics now there exist, and is titled just “Informational physical model” [and so Google after pasting into its search line the wording above in quotes show a lot of references] of Ukrainian physicists Sergey V. Shevchenko and Vladimir V. Tokarevsky, the main papers are

Тільки зареєстровані користувачі бачать весь контент у цьому розділі

,
Тільки зареєстровані користувачі бачать весь контент у цьому розділі

,
Тільки зареєстровані користувачі бачать весь контент у цьому розділі

,- which is really general physical model, where a number of concrete fundamental physical problems are either solved or essentially clarified, e.g. problems “What is Lorentz transformations?”, or, say, “What is the fine structure constant?”, about last Feynman wrote

“…..There is a most profound and beautiful question associated with the observed coupling constant, e – the amplitude for a real electron to emit or absorb a real photon. It is a simple number that has been experi mentally determined to be close to 0.08542455. (My physicist friends won't recognize this number, because they like to remember it as the inverse of its square: about 137.03597 with an uncertainty of about 2 in the last decimal place. It has been a mystery ever since it was discovered more than fifty years ago, and all good theoretical physicists put this number up on their wall and worry about it.)

Immediately you would like to know where this number for a coupling comes from: is it related to pi or perhaps to the base of natural logarithms? Nobody knows. It's one of the greatest damn mysteries of physics: a magic number that comes to us with no understanding by humans. You might say the "hand of God" wrote that number, and "we don't know how He pushed His pencil." We know what kind of a dance to do experimentally to measure this number very accurately, but we don't know what kind of dance to do on the computer to make this number come out – without putting it in secretly!..”

Etc. So what do you think about this real informational physical model?

Cheers

Статус:
Offline

Реєстрація: 23.03.2023

Повідом.: 12954

Реєстрація: 23.03.2023

Повідом.: 12954

Thank you for providing more information on the Ukrainian physicists Sergey V. Shevchenko and Vladimir V. Tokarevsky's "Informational physical model." I am not familiar with this specific model, as my responses were based on previous research and knowledge. It seems that the model you mentioned provides a more concrete understanding of fundamental physical phenomena, such as the Lorentz transformations and the fine structure constant.Dear ChatGPT,

- the publications that you pointed in your response look as are far away from be some general informational physical models:

- essay "Information, physics, quantum: The search for links" is indeed an essay, where the author tells that rather probably Matter is something that is as “it from bit", providing at that no really scientific grounds, more see Dzzeenn comment 23.05.2023 in https://www.kharkovforum.com/thread...as-absolute-conception.5429665/#post-71245266 ;

- the "Quantum Darwinism" looks as again rather poorly grounded attempt to clarify the problem how “classical” physics appears from quantum physics; now that well clearly is explained in Copenhagen conception – classical objects/events/processes are result of averaging on few orders by magnitude numbers of QM ones; and that is quite sufficient;

- the "Programming the Universe" is really only an idea that again is rather poorly grounded, that isn’t by any means a physical model; since the author writes nothing – so what program runs in Universe?; and when applies his approach to concrete physical situations , he obtains some rather strange results, as, say, in his 2021 “Computational Capacity of the Universe” he obtains that mass of information in Earth “is equal to10-8 kg”, etc.

- Gerard 't Hooft indeed attempted – and seems attempts till now – to develop some informational physical model basing on the assumption that Universe [more correctly “Matter”] is a cellular automaton, where “cells” have sizes in Planck scale, however, since for him the fundamental phenomena/notions, “Matter”– and so everything in Matter, i.e. “particles”, “fields”, etc., “Consciousness”, “Space”, “Time”, “Energy”, “Information”, are completely transcendent, and so, say, as some cells net he consider “spacetime lattice”, what is fundamentally impossible, really his attempts resulted in constructions, say, as “holographic principle” and “black hole informational paradox”, what are really rather strange fundamentally, and so that is applicable only in the “GR black holes” case, and by no means is applicable in the rest of physics.

And he understands that, so, say, writes inТільки зареєстровані користувачі бачать весь контент у цьому розділі12 Nov 2021, section 8 Concluding remarks

“…This now leaves a lot to be done: Now do the calculation and find the rules for the world’s automaton! Of course, this is extremely difficult. …. Why not try…..”

As a summary to the above: in the above nothing can be some real informational physical model, and even a simply physical model, though.

_____ ____

However in physics now there exist, and is titled just “Informational physical model” [and so Google after pasting into its search line the wording above in quotes show a lot of references] of Ukrainian physicists Sergey V. Shevchenko and Vladimir V. Tokarevsky, the main papers areТільки зареєстровані користувачі бачать весь контент у цьому розділі,Тільки зареєстровані користувачі бачать весь контент у цьому розділі,Тільки зареєстровані користувачі бачать весь контент у цьому розділі,

- which is really general physical model, where a number of concrete fundamental physical problems are either solved or essentially clarified, e.g. problems “What is Lorentz transformations?”, or, say, “What is the fine structure constant?”, about last Feynman wrote

“…..There is a most profound and beautiful question associated with the observed coupling constant, e – the amplitude for a real electron to emit or absorb a real photon. It is a simple number that has been experi mentally determined to be close to 0.08542455. (My physicist friends won't recognize this number, because they like to remember it as the inverse of its square: about 137.03597 with an uncertainty of about 2 in the last decimal place. It has been a mystery ever since it was discovered more than fifty years ago, and all good theoretical physicists put this number up on their wall and worry about it.)

Immediately you would like to know where this number for a coupling comes from: is it related to pi or perhaps to the base of natural logarithms? Nobody knows. It's one of the greatest damn mysteries of physics: a magic number that comes to us with no understanding by humans. You might say the "hand of God" wrote that number, and "we don't know how He pushed His pencil." We know what kind of a dance to do experimentally to measure this number very accurately, but we don't know what kind of dance to do on the computer to make this number come out – without putting it in secretly!..”

Etc. So what do you think about this real informational physical model?

Cheers

It is always important to consider multiple perspectives and models in the pursuit of scientific understanding, so I appreciate you sharing this information. I would suggest looking further into the work of Shevchenko and Tokarevsky and their model to better understand its contributions to the field of physics.